[This interview was conducted by Obadiah D. Morris in the summer of 2024, speaking with a Christian brother, Zachary Gomez, who clearly sees through the political illusions set before us that most “Christians” today have still not opened their eyes to. Though what he has to say should be basic to Christian thought, it is unfortunately foreign to most and thus bound to offend those who still partake in the world and its sacraments, like voting and picking their favorite rulers and waving their flags. Zachary emphasizes avoiding these political systems, abstaining from voting, and turning our sights back on the Lord. If people could come to accept these rather basic to us (but profound to others) things he has to say, which is really just pointing people to the teachings of Christ that they have lost touch with, we could make a lot of progress among a Christianity that today is highly lost in the world despite all the scriptural caution to avoid it. Alas, most people will fight against it, because they will be indicted for being one of the ones who still refuse to disengage from these evil systems and work to advance the Kingdom of God instead]. 

Leaving Egypt Ministries: Hey Zachary, it’s good to have you on. It’s been very disheartening seeing the way that most self-professed Christians are acting today regarding the political rule we live under, which always especially flares up in an “election season,” which is a sort of reoccurring psychological operation that they keep us under. It’s always in this season that we get to see how foolish and idolatrous most people truly are. To me it always exposes a lack of fear of the Lord that they are anxious about political outcomes and “our” alleged need to try and influence them — as if God isn’t in control. What do you say to all these blind men today who tell us that we have to hurl ourselves into the political arena if we want to advance the cause of Jesus Christ’s kingdom? I guess these people think they can use the sword of the State to make men holy, that if we beat up enough people with the police club that we could have a godly society. 

Zachary Gomez: What does the Scripture say about the law? It says that it cannot make anyone righteous. What does the Scripture say about the nature of man? It says that it is unable to keep the law? What does the Scripture say about how a person can be righteous? A person can only be righteous by grace through faith, by being born again. It is a lie that voting advances the kingdom. Even supposing a genuine Christian is voted into office. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Jesus said to repent and come out of the world and come into the kingdom (Mark 1:15). America and its government is part of “the world”and nowhere in Scripture are we encouraged to use the powers of the State to enforce the ways of the kingdom. That can only be done by the lovingkindness of the Lord. The State doesn’t have the Spirit of God to be loving and kind. Preaching the gospel and making disciples and living the ways of the kingdom in our communities is the only way to advance the kingdom. Utilizing the governments of the world’s system is not the way of Christ.

Leaving Egypt: And yet these “Christian statists” (contradiction) have been led to believe that the State must be used to advance the Kingdom of Christ, even though Jesus Himself didn’t work through these channels and specifically avoided them. How can men think they can do it if even Jesus fled from such attempts (John 6:15)? Who do they think they are!? It seems we still have a lot to learn about how to turn people to the ethics of Christ. Men have just not understood that you can’t legislate morality, that you can’t just use the sword to make men righteous.

Zachary Gomez: Righteousness cannot be implemented into people’s hearts or enforced by the laws of man and governments of the world’s system. Not even God’s laws can be enforced or kept without a person being born again by the Spirit of God and having grace through faith. Advancing the kingdom only happens when the gospel is preached and people get saved. It’s not the governments job to preach the gospel, it’s the Church’s job. And no Christian needs to hold a seat in the governments of the world to preach the gospel.

Leaving Egypt: We see so many “Christians” today telling us that we have to be voting if we care about justice and God. It’s depressing how much the kingdoms of men have drawn people into this evil system. They think that God’s kingdom is advanced through the State, which is precisely the way that it is thwarted! They have everything backwards. They are both failing to do anything to advance the kingdom on the non-political front where it is truly advanced, under the thinking that voting is sufficient for make change, and engaging in the very things that prevent a godly society from moving forward. They don’t think they have any real duty to neighbor, community, or providing for others through faith, hope, and charity. For them, voting was doing their part. They can go return to the couch and television now with their “I voted” stickers on and act like they have carried out their virtuous duties and done their part in changing the world. 

Zachary Gomez: Advancing the kingdom has absolutely nothing to do with voting and doing so abdicates our responsibility and authority. The reason the Kingdom of God is being thwarted today is exactly because men have turned to governments to do everything for them, from protecting them, providing for them, educating their children, etc. The kingdom is advanced precisely by non-political means. Preaching the gospel, making disciples of Jesus, calling them out of the world’s system and to kingdom living, being like an Acts 4:32-35 Church. That’s what we really should be doing. All this political stuff is an idolatrous hamster wheel.

Leaving Egypt: Giving up our responsibility is really what it comes down to. We allowed man’s idolatrous systems of human government to start doing what God wanted the godly family to be doing. We handed our heritage over to strangers, as a prophet might say. It’s difficult to argue with these people sometimes, because they don’t even have an elementary sense that the political parties they’re being spoon-fed are both owned, that democracy is a sham to get them to believe they have options, etc. All these things that are so basic to us haven’t even crossed their minds yet. It’s like they don’t even know that the evil forces of the world control the State, even as it has become more obvious than ever. They bought into all the lies that “the government is us” and “we the people” need to “take it back.” They still think we need to be engaged in it and fighting evil men on their own turf. It’s the blind leading the blind out there, among both non-Christians and those who profess Christ Jesus.

Zachary Gomez: The evil powers that (should not) be control the American political system, and they either select the candidates on the “left” and “right” or they buy them or blackmail them or once in office they railroad them, and most acquiesce to the system. Because that’s the domain of the “god of this world.” Jesus said to come out of the world and into His kingdom (John 15:19). There was no call to “reform” Rome, as men try to do today when they vote and cheer on political candidates. America is the new Rome. It’s an Egypt or a Babylon of our time, notwithstanding those millions of people who think this is a “godly country.” We have an illusion of choice. It’s a hamster wheel and it’s not the way to advance the kingdom. Jesus is our king and there is no politician or government official who can do for us what we can do for ourselves or what Jesus can do for us. It is not our responsibility to vote. It’s our responsibility to advance the kingdom as His ambassadors. We should be “ruling” and “reigning” but we’ve abdicated our authority and responsibility by putting it off on corrupt politicians in a corrupt to the core system.

Leaving Egypt: Did these voting Christians imagine that they read Jesus and the Apostles campaigning and voting when they were going about the political societies of their day? How can they suddenly imagine that being politically involved is our method of expanding the Kingdom, if they truly get their wisdom from Jesus Christ?

Zachary Gomez: Right. Since when did Jesus use the State to implement His kingdom? Since when did politics change a human heart by making it born again? Voting for Trump isn’t getting anyone saved, neither is voting for any Republican, or anyone period. We could show up the powers that (should not) be if we actually wised up and stopped playing into their schemes. The false sacrament of voting is one of the main ways the statists rope men into participating in ungodly ways.

Leaving Egypt: It’s also kind of funny that they don’t just tell us we must vote, but exactly how they think we should. I saw one lady recently say that “the only way for a God-follower to vote is to vote Republican.” This is just worldly “wisdom,” not wisdom from God. These people just make up whatever they want to and pass it off as if it came from the Lord and that they’ve devoted to Him.

Zachary Gomez: Yes, while Republicans generally have more conservative, family-friendly rhetoric and personas, if one just does a little research it’s not difficult to see how they have contributed to the decline of American society as much as Democrats. Democrats are just more open about their departure from conservative values. They are just more explicit socialists who actually admit to their socialism. Republicans have been for things that indirectly hurt structures of conservative values, like the family via taxation, unjust wars, mass surveillance, corporatism, and government overspending. They are socialists who don’t admit to it and are so deceived they don’t even see it themselves. All it shows is how the power of worldly government systems are breeding grounds for corruption and compromise. 

Leaving Egypt: It seems obvious that statists and voters do not understand the way of the Lord. They try to make Jesus into a worldly ruler like them whose means of advancing His kingdom are violence. What they are doing is merely trying to reconcile their own support for political violence with the Lord, rather than learn from the Lord Himself, which really just makes them into men who use the Lord’s name in vain. They can’t distinguish between the ways of the world and that of the Lord Jesus.

Zachary Gomez: The way of the State is the way of the sword, of force. It is unavoidable. The way of Christ is lovingkindness leading people to repentance, not forcing laws on people that will never (and have never) changed a heart or automatically made someone abide by them. It is not the way of Christ or the Kingdom to try and reform Rome with Roman power. Wielding the powers of the State to enforce any law, even if there are good intentions, is wrong. I don’t know why most people can’t see this. Did Jesus come to us with the sword and say obey this law or else? Or did He say, I love you and I want to give you a new heart if you just believe in me?

Leaving Egypt: I have seen others tell us to “vote Biblically.” But it’s not self-evident what it means to “vote Biblically.” These people tell us that at least they’re “brave” enough to get out there and vote. 

Zachary Gomez: That’s not brave, what we’re saying is brave: to trust in the Lord and His kingdom ways over trusting in the ways of man and the world’s system. This is what most people can’t say and won’t do, not only because they don’t think like this, but because most people are too cowardly to say anything like it and actually preach the kingdom of God. But even if they were brave to say whatever they wanted, they don’t know how, because most people can’t even distinguish the kingdom of God from the kingdoms of men that they are still worshiping. The government only knows the way of force. That is not the way of Christ. The way of Christ is to give people a new heart and have His laws written on their hearts and give them the grace to be righteous when they put their trust in Him.

Leaving Egypt: The funny thing is that, for calling themselves Christians, what the “Christian voter” is really saying is that preaching the gospel is not good enough! They tell us we aren’t doing anything to change the world if we’re “merely” spreading the word of the Lord and His kingdom around, that Jesus can’t really change men and that we Christians of the world need to get the sword in our hand to do it.

Zachary Gomez: I preach the gospel, I’m making disciples and building kingdom communities and loving my family and neighbors well. All without participating in America’s hamster wheel of a Hegelian Dialectic charade of a political system. Because Jesus never instructed us to vote or reform Rome by Roman means or advance the kingdom using the governments of the world’s system, which is currently controlled by the devil, the god of this world. Most of these people have no idea how much they are deceived, despite the many Biblical warnings to avoid deception and the lies of the world (Deut 11:16; Matt 7:15-20, 24:24; Rom 12:2; 2 Cor 4:4, 11:3; Eph 5:6; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Tim 3:13, 4:3-4; 2 Thess 2:3; 1 John 2:16, 4:1, 5:19), hence why they fight against our message so much. They have no idea how deep the political schemes run that have been perpetuated against them. Voting in a false right/left Hegelian Dialectic paradigm is an illusion of choice. Presidents have always been selected. They are all descendants of occult bloodline royalty. But they still tell us we must be politically involved, as if our ability to openly profess Christ is contingent on who is king or president. In Christ we are blessed, period. When men tell us we must use politics to change the world, they are relying on their own wisdom and not that of Christ. The problem with many people’s theology is they are not looking through the lens of Christ. Not that the Old Testament is obsolete, it’s that it has to be filtered through the new covenant which disarmed the powers in such a way that they do not dictate whether I am blessed and even if I am jailed for speaking the name of Jesus, I am still free, because I will be like Paul and worship and preach in jail to the guards and the prison walls, which are more imprisoned than I will ever be. Their perspectives are limited to the temporal and the natural mind.

Leaving Egypt: What we’re really seeing is that when men are not Kingdom-minded, when they’re not focused on the ways of the Lord and His promises that if we seek first the kingdom of God and all other things will be added unto us (Matt 6:33), that they think the only way to do anything in our would is through political channels, which are futile and worthless at best and nothing more than violence at worst. And so they think that politics exhausts the means of affecting social change, and if you aren’t in politics, then you aren’t (in their view) doing anything for society. You’re treated like you’re apathetic or something. When really, forming networks with our neighbors and engaging in charity among them is not only what the Kingdom of God is all about, but it would be entirely more meaningful and powerful than politics. The funny thing is, though, and we’re back to the responsibility problem here, is that these people think that the only finger they need to lift is voting for a politician! Then their “civic duty” is done! No need to get out there and rally your neighbors and make vows to serve each other. So we see that not only is voting contrary to the kingdom of God, but it really shows that men are abdicating all their responsibility to advancing God’s kingdom when they settle here.

Zachary Gomez: Absolutely! We all want safe, clean and prosperous communities to live in, but most of us expect the government to do for us what we should be doing as people who were originally called to take dominion, which just means that we should be leading from a place of being confident image-bearers (doers) of our Creator, serving and stewarding His creation well. From an efficacy standpoint, voting is the least effective thing we can do to bring heaven to earth, especially with regards to economic issues. From a practical standpoint, if we simply voted with our own money (and got money out of the hands of governments that have entirely perverted it) by keeping them within kingdom communities then we wouldn’t give much thought to what politicians were or were not doing to improve the world’s economy. Even the powers that (should not) be understand how controlling the money of a people is greater than any other forms of control like laws. But the truth is that God is to be our Source and Provider and He is calling His people to be like Him regarding giving and sharing and trading. 

Leaving Egypt Ministries: It’s also interesting that, for not being politically involved, we are somehow blamed for the evils of a system that they support. We’re told, for instance, “You’re not going to vote? Oh, so you support the thousands of babies who are murdered in the womb every day!?” We’re told that we are part of the problem for…well, not wanting to be part of the evils like them. They tell us “if you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem.” We’re thought to just be standing aside and doing nothing if we don’t want to participate in evil political systems, when these people, by being politically involved, are the ones who allow these systems to even happen, and by doing nothing more to change their communities than casting a lousy vote, are the ones who are really doing nothing. Sadly men still think there are political solutions to political problems.

Zachary Gomez: The solution is the gospel of the kingdom, which cannot be implemented by governments or laws. For preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God, as Jesus Christ did, we are part of the solution. Those who advocate political involvement can’t see that it’s not the way Jesus calls us to advance His kingdom. They would probably also accuse Jesus of being apathetic and not doing enough to change the world either. And they would probably not like to hear this conclusion either, since they still pretend to be following the ways of Christ. 

Leaving Egypt: Sometimes I just don’t know what to say anymore to people who are so caught up in the ways of the world that they repeat tired old slogans like “if you don’t vote you can’t complain.” It’s just depressing that men think this way and were so easily duped into believing they must take part in the rulers’ own system if they want to stop the rulers from doing bad things to them. 

Zachary Gomez: Voting is not the answer and it’s not what’s going to stop them. We should be advancing His kingdom by focusing on kingdom living, and making disciples, which voting cannot produce. There is no politician worthy of an endorsement or who we should trust to govern us better than the Lord Jesus. We do not need the State to implement the kingdom. That’s the world’s way, the way of force. Jesus leads us to repentance by His loving kindness. Those who think the we are in need of human rulers, especially when they claim to be Christians, are essentially forsaking the true King.

Leaving Egypt: It’s an interesting religious landscape when these people can still attempt to appeal to us on grounds of “you need to read your Bible” or “you need the Holy Spirit,” and yet still be so wrong and lacking these things themselves. All we can do, it seems, is show that by advocating for things like state violence, that it is actually these people who don’t know the Lord or trust in His protection and plan. Using the State is a clear example of knowing someone by their fruit, which in this case is support for theft and murder because it’s called “democracy.” Statism is a telling sign that someone simply does not know the way of the Lord. If they did, they would take the rallying-cry “No King But Christ” seriously and would not be voting for president-kings. That they don’t tells me they have another “king,” and a false one at that. 

Zachary Gomez: Using the state to enforce the ways of the kingdom is not of God. It can’t be because its only instrument is the sword/force. Again, Jesus and the Apostles never advocated for using Rome or the governments of the world’s system to enforce His laws or advance His kingdom. Jesus doesn’t use force; He changes the heart by His Spirit. Voting for any candidate “right” or “left” is a form of idolatry because it’s an endorsement of men who cannot make anyone righteous by governing from within the world’s system, and it’s telling God you’re part of the world. His true kingdom people have no need for man’s laws or man’s governments because He is our King and we abide by His laws, which are written on our hearts because He has made us righteous by grace through faith. We are in the world but not of it. Even Israel revealed how wanting and having a king was a total failure (1 Samuel 8), and how it was a sinful abandonment of God. Of all the kings of Israel and Judah, a very small percentage were righteous in the eyes of God. God is calling His people back to having no king, no president, and no ruler other than Him — to Godarchism if you will. God’s kingdom people have no need for any nation of the world to be a “Christian” nation because we, His people, are the only nation of God.

Leaving Egypt: Yeah, but people have been so fooled by statist propaganda, especially in America, that they can’t see out of it. It’s even worse that they have been made to think they’re “free.” So in the “United States” you have all these lies of “this is a godly country” (as if the military dropping bombs on children is godly), and people who say that if “the patriots” don’t stand up and “take back our country” it will “be handed over to communists and we’ll lose our freedom” and won’t be “the greatest country in the world” anymore. They don’t see that statism always destroys freedom and that it has already been lost long ago, and won’t be changed by getting some new guy in power. They don’t see that we’re already a communist country, and that they took part in making it happen by voting and praising politicians and “the troops” rather than building up their communities without the use of politics. But now, after all these years of doing nothing themselves, they fear that socialism is just around the corner. They think that this moment is still yet to come, and thus “this is the most important election of our lifetimes” — the point where we either go communist or don’t. “If only Christians would all vote we could make this a Christian country again.” It’s comical sometimes. 

Zachary Gomez: The State cannot give or take away freedom. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed (John 8:36). Also, the US was founded by Christians in name only. They were really occultists and proponents of Enlightenment thought. This is clear when you look on the US Great Seal which was commissioned by Adams and Franklin in 1776. It has an occult Egyptian pyramid with the eye of Horus/Satan/lucifer and the purpose for which America was founded—novus ordo seclorum—to spearhead the New World Order of the Devil and his antichrists. This is the truth no matter how much you disagree with it.

Leaving Egypt: We hear all this talk about how “Christians must register to vote and vote Biblically” — whatever that means. We hear that “we can’t let the democrats take over,” as if the whole system isn’t inherently plunderous and socialist. These people don’t see that no “democrats” would be dominating their life at all if it weren’t for the very system that they are still supporting, if it weren’t for their failure to take responsibility and take “governance” into their own hands, out of hands of the State. The only reason we have “democrats” and other statists ruling over us today is because we failed to raise godly families as God instructed us to and failed to love our neighbors, instead subjecting them to political bondage and coveting their property through the democratic system of robbery. Our people have entangled themselves in bondage long ago, abandoning voluntary forms of welfare for the political means of “helping” others. But now we’re just late in the game, and these same people are telling us “we need to vote.” They have no idea where they already went wrong and how long ago it happened. But we need to vote our way out of it!

Zachary Gomez: It is certainly idiotic and insane to keep doing the same thing every election cycle and expecting a different result. It just goes to show how strong the deception and delusion is for them to keep promoting things that don’t work. Just maybe we can try things differently. Maybe ask the Lord what He would have us do. To a large extent He has already told us in His word, we just need to repent as a whole and ask for the grace to walk it out. He told us to make disciples of Him by preaching and teaching what He did and living it out (Matt 28-19-20). Can you honestly see Jesus casting a vote for any candidate? Or even mandating that we do? Have any Christian voters even asked themselves this? Whatever happened to “what would Jesus do?” Men started just saying what they think they should do. We are supposed to have His authority, so why are we handing it over to people who are ruling from a kingdom that’s not His? 

Leaving Egypt Ministries: Another thing we see in people a lot is that they’re so caught up in their false gods and the illusions put before them, that they immediately assume we support the other false god if we criticize theirs. I can’t tell you how many times conservative idolaters have called me a “democrat” for pointing out their idolatry. You can actually quote the prophets in our time and a conservative will say “he’s a liberal.” This has actually happened to me. This is how far-gone so many people are. Actually, many people cannot even hardly conceive of not voting at all. If we counsel them out voting for one guy, their small minds immediately say, “Oh, so you’re voting for the evil candidate that supports abortion then, huh!?” 

Zachary Gomez: We Christians don’t vote at all for a man or a woman or any person. People have been so conditioned and deceived that when we say we don’t support one guy, they automatically think we somehow support the other side. The world is not binary despite what the powers that (should not) be have led you to believe. Right/left is a false paradigm. Both sides are controlled by the god (the devil) of the world’s system, of which America is most definitely part. It’s not the Kingdom of God, and the way to advance God’s kingdom is not through voting for a person. The way of Christ is not the way of force or of laws, which the State and all governments of the world only know how to do. Righteousness is only implemented by the Spirit of God, when someone becomes born again and receives His grace. Those who are stuck on X or Y politician still falsely believe that voting for a person does any good at all or is necessary. It is not. Jesus and the Apostles never advocated for using the State to force people to be Christians or follow Christian laws and that’s all “the Right” wants to do or can do…is use force. And they are wrong. Does Jesus force you to follow Him by holding a sword to your throat or a gun to your head? Ultimately, right and left are both evil and guilty.